Ó 1999 – 2000 by Mary Bold

 

Debate between

Group Socialization Theory and Traditional Socialization Theory

 

Speaker for GS Theory is Mary Bold.

Speaker for Traditional Theory has varied. This script was used by Cathy Brown, a columnist for the Arlington Morning News, Arlington, Texas. She presented the debate with Mary Bold at a workshop in Fort Worth, Texas, on August 2, 2000.

 

Traditional theory:

Thank you for joining us today to debate GS theory. Mary and I will take on the roles of advocates of opposing theories: group socialization and traditional socialization. As you listen to our debate, you may hear frustration in our voices, maybe some anger, maybe even some disgust. Because we are human, we often attach emotion to our “scientific” work. You will get a taste of the fervor social scientists feel toward their theories. Don’t worry that we might come to blows—we are good friends and we are intentionally taking on roles for this debate. Following our debate you will have a chance to ask questions.

 

GS theory:

Even though GS stands for “group socialization,” this new theory actually addresses two processes: socialization and personality development. The basic question here is how do children develop into adults—and the answer is found in an age-old debate of nature versus nurture. Do children inherit the traits that they carry into adulthood, or do they “get socialized” and turn into the adult the environment creates? GS theory holds that nature probably accounts for about 50% of most traits, and that environment accounts for the rest.

 

Traditional theory:

Let’s not spend our time together today debating the nature part of your premise. Obviously, we’re learning enough about heredity to say 40% of one trait is determined or at least suggested by genes, and maybe 70% of another trait is “heritable.” But I’ll accept your general statement of about 50% of most traits. Let’s leave that in general terms. I’m more interested in what you have to say about nurture—the environment part of the equation.

 

GS theory:

Yes, nurture seems to be the crux of our modern debate of nature versus nurture. You obviously want me to get straight to my point, so I will: nurture—environment—has a single greatest component, and that is the childhood peer group. GS theory says that the greatest determining factor on the child’s development of adult personality is the peer group. The elementary school years are the most influential, followed by the adolescent years. The child’s peer groups in those years determine adult personality.

 

Traditional theory:

Thank you for finally getting that said. You are presenting the child’s peers as more important than the child’s parents. Have I stated that correctly?

 

GS theory:

Yes. The major determinant of adult personality is the childhood play group, understanding that it may not be a single group. Some children grow up in one place and perhaps go through a small number of peer groups, or possibly only one. Other children may move frequently and be exposed to many peer groups. So, when I say “peer group” I mean one or several or many groups to which the child is exposed from the age of 5 or 6 on.

 

Traditional theory:

I think we understand your meaning of the word “group.” I’m much more interested in how you can simply ignore the fact that a child lives in some type of family that must have more influence than a play group! You can’t just ignore that!

 

GS theory:

Oh, I know family has influence—but it’s limited to the confines of the family. And for all practical purposes, the influence ends with the preschool years.

 

Traditional theory:

Meaning, at age 5 or 6 the child enters the play group and leaves family behind?

 

GS theory:

That about sums it up.

 

Traditional theory:

So you would agree with me that parental influence is paramount for babies and young children?

 

GS theory:

You know I do.

 

Traditional theory:

You agree that what we know of infant attachment is correct? That the work of researchers such as Bowlby and Ainsworth have accurately assessed infant needs for primary caregiving?

 

GS theory:

Yes. Research and experience show conclusively that babies who don’t attach properly grow up to be pretty miserable people.

 

Traditional theory:

So, you admit that attachment theory is sound—but you then tell me that the result of attachment ends when the child is 5 or 6 years old. But children don’t come with on-and-off switches!!!

 

GS theory:

Attachment theory is sound, yes. But it is not complete, universal. In fact, it is contextual. Babies and children learn what they need to in one context, and then go on to learn what is needed in the next context. They do not transfer the learning—and that includes the model of the relationship with the mother.

 

Traditional theory:

Without debating how contextual learning may or may not be, you are still suggesting that children are influenced by parents for only 5 or 6 years of their life. We have decades of modern research that says otherwise, besides a whole lot of common sense: children live with their parents and family—many more hours than they spend with their peers. To dismiss that daily time, with its inevitable interaction, is ludicrous!

 

GS theory:

OK, I won’t dismiss it. Yes, children spend time with their family in the home. But what they learn there, what they do there, stays there.

 

Traditional theory:

You think the child who receives encouragement from a parent—on homework or baseball—isn’t affected by that encouragement?

 

GS theory:

It may be an important part of the relationship between that child and that parent. But it’s not important to how the child turns out as an adult. What will be much more important is how much encouragement the child’s peers give him. We’d probably put it in terms of group acceptance, though, rather than encouragement. If the peer group accepts the child’s ability to spell or hit a ball, that behavior will be reinforced. If the peer group does not value the ability, the behavior will be rejected—and the child will drop it.

 

Traditional theory:

You describe a scenario that may fit some adolescent experience with peer groups, but I don’t believe it describes the whole of childhood. The child’s behavior, in spelling or baseball, will reflect values that the parents have instilled in the child.

 

GS theory:

Now, there, you’re wrong. If the child spells well, it’s probably the result of spelling genes inherited from parents. If the child likes to spell, that’s probably inherited, too. If the whole family is a virtual spelling bee, it’s because of their nature connection. Spelling feels good to everyone in that family—it makes sense to them—it has value for them, because they’re all built for it, genetically built for it. The parents didn’t instill anything through nurture, only through nature. But take the spelling gene down the road—will the child develop the spelling talent? GS theory says: only if the child’s peer group values spelling. If the child lives in a neighborhood where the spelling bee is a big deal and all the children aspire to win it, then the child will explore that potential. If the neighborhood children aspire to be sports stars, and don’t care about spelling bees, then the child will stop spelling. Or, at least, stop spelling well.

 

Traditional theory:

There you go again, with that on-and-off switch. Children do not stop doing what their parents encourage them to do!

 

GS theory:

OK, I can agree with that—partially. Some children will continue to do what their parents encourage—but only within sight of their parents! In the peer group, around the other children, the behavior will be dropped. How many parents have ever said: “We know he has it in him, but his schoolwork does not reflect his potential.”

 

Traditional theory:

I’ll actually give you a few points on that one. I’ve raised a boy, too.

 

GS theory:

Yes, me, too! We make jokes about boys not caring about homework or grades or honors. We know that’s a stereotype with many, many exceptions. But the stereotype hints at what GS theory predicts for children’s behavior: what the peer group values, the child will act on. If the boy’s peer group values high grades, he will study and perform. If the boy’s peer group does not value grades, he will not study. Performance will depend on genes, luck, the teacher’s curve, whatever. But you cannot count on study habits for that child.

 

Traditional theory:

Again, I think you are describing adolescent behavior for some adolescents.

 

GS theory:

No! It starts much earlier than adolescence. Thomas Kindermann looked at school motivation among 4th and 5th graders over the course of a school year. What Kindermann found, as he traced children’s movement through social groups, is that their school performance changed according to which group they happened to be in at the time. These elementary school social groups may not call themselves the “brains” and the “burn-outs” (the way teenagers might) but the result is the same. By moving into a new social group—a normal activity among children in elementary school—a child moves up or down the grade book.

 

Traditional theory:

You come close to describing what we already have theory to describe: labeling and self-fulfilling prophecy. Children in the “bluebird” reading group, throughout the history of education, have always known they were the worst readers in the room—and for most, the label sticks. They stay the worst readers.

 

GS theory:

We’re on the same wavelength, if you’ll just accept that the bluebirds are found throughout the child’s life. Social life, school life, everywhere.

 

Traditional theory:

But you stress the importance of the group over importance of the family and the parents.

 

GS theory:

Right. It’s the group influence that the child reacts to in forming adult personality.

 

Traditional theory:

No! It’s the home to which the child returns each day that forms personality. Your view would suggest that it doesn’t matter where the child returns home each day.

 

GS theory:

That’s right! It practically doesn’t matter! If you switched all the parents around the neighborhood, the children would turn out about the same.

 

Traditional theory:

If you and I had changed places 15 years ago, our children would have turned out about the same?

 

GS theory:

Yes.

 

Traditional theory:

But I know what I gave to my children. You surely gave your children certain parenting, certain values. Your children are what they are today because of what you gave them.

 

GS theory:

They are what they are partly because of their genetic makeup. Yes, I gave them that much. They are what they are partly because of what the adult community gave them—but you and I are so similar in that regard that it doesn’t really matter which of us reared them. Your children and mine grew up in the same neighborhood. They went to the same schools!  You and I are in an adult peer group that establishes high standards for our children’s education; our peer group also spends a lot of money sending our children to computer camps and sports leagues. Our adult peer group includes people like Cathy Brown coaching season after season of youth sports. And, no, it didn’t matter which parent was doing the coaching, as long as you and a few others were there to make the season happen. As long as our children’s peer groups are influenced by this adult peer group, it also doesn’t matter which of us is in the home monitoring the curfew or paying for the prom dress.

 

Traditional theory:

You’re saying that parents are important!

 

GS theory:

You’re trapping me! OK, parents are important in that young people still need parents around. Young people need some care, they certainly need financial support, and, so, yes, parents are necessary components of family. But…as long as an adult peer group is in place, it doesn’t matter who the individual parents are.

 

Traditional theory:

Are you going back to your point that your and my children would be the same regardless of which of us reared them? That my daughter would be the same, regardless of having you or me as a parent?

 

GS theory:

That’s right. She would have turned out just about the same. Well, except that her tastes in food might be different. Religion, different. Holidays, different. Maybe how you cook would be the major influence in terms of daily lifestyle.

 

Traditional theory:

You see cooking as being a parenting influence?

 

GS theory:

That’s right. Things like cooking and religion do get handed down from parent to child—but only because the childhood play groups don’t have an interest in those behaviors. Anything not covered in the peer group can still be influenced by the family.

 

Traditional theory:

You are suggesting that a parent’s cooking style has more influence than his or her parenting style!

 

GS theory:

What a clever way of putting it! Thank you, I may use that in future lectures.

 

Traditional theory:

My intent is not to be clever, but to point out that in the family field we have been able to study parenting behavior. We can identify styles of parenting and we can recommend effective parenting skills. We can and do help people be better parents.

 

GS theory:

Perhaps that information can be of some help, as long as we admit its limitations. First, we have to admit that parenting skills affect only one thing: how the parent and child get along in the home. Second, we have to admit that parenting style, even parental warmth, will not greatly impact the child’s adult personality.

 

Traditional theory:

Hold it. It sounds as though you have dismissed work like Diana Baumrind’s on authoritarian, permissive, and authoritative parenting styles. Are you dismissing it?

 

GS theory:

Perhaps Baumrind’s styles accurately describe parenting in a limited subculture—well-educated, middle class, white America—but it definitely is not cross-cultural. Try applying her styles and their expected outcomes to different groups, such as an Asian-American community. The typical parenting style might be described as authoritarian, but the children’s outcomes wouldn’t match the expectation of discontented, withdrawn, or aimless. No, Baumrind’s model doesn’t really work across the board.

 

Traditional theory:

I don’t want to debate Baumrind’s work here. I want to address the general topic of parenting styles and skills. Surely you do not suggest that it doesn’t matter what style or level of parenting goes on in the home!

 

GS theory:

Well, it doesn’t matter very much, if at all.

 

Traditional theory:

A cold, stern parent is equal to a warm, understanding parent? A closed-communication style is equal to an open-communication style? Considering the possible range of just these traits, I can plot a continuum from highly abusive to highly supportive. You have suggested that it doesn’t matter where on that continuum the parent falls.

 

GS theory:

Oh, I wouldn’t be able to tolerate “abusive” on the continuum. But less-than-ideal? Sure. According to normal development expectations, the parent need not be highly skilled in parenting. Need not be warm. Need not be supportive. As long as the child’s peer group is receiving the benefits of a normal adult peer group, the individual set of parents need not be perfect parents. They can be simply adequate. Some may be less-than-adequate, although I think the bulk of the parents would be what we could call “good enough.”

 

Traditional theory:

Listen to your words: normal development—adequate—good enough. You have not begun to define these terms and yet you present them as a prescription for rearing children. All I’m hearing is an excuse for parents who don’t want to do the hard work of parenting.

 

GS theory:

There’s no excuse in GS theory. If parents are less than adequate, they will pay a price: they will not have good relationships with their children.

 

Traditional theory:

I say that if parents are less than adequate, the children will grow up less than adequate.

 

GS theory:

But most children turn out just fine! The ones who don’t, have other problems, chief among them inherited traits such as disagreeableness.

 

Traditional theory:

You don’t think parents have anything to do with bad outcomes?!?!?

 

GS theory:

In normal development, no. In cases of abuse, perhaps. But remember that about 1/3 of abused children grow up to do very well as adults, with no intervention whatsoever. They don’t automatically become abusers themselves.

 

Traditional theory:

Surely you cannot mean that abuse doesn’t matter.

 

GS theory:

I did not say that and I would not! You know that! I am trying to describe normal development.

 

Traditional theory:

Then we can agree that abusive parents do damage to their children. And that GS theory does not excuse abuse.

 

GS theory:

That is correct. I do not mean to confuse abusive parenting with simply less-than-ideal.

 

Traditional theory:

Then you are saying that outside of abusive parents, the type of parent you are doesn’t matter.

 

GS theory:

It won’t influence your child’s adult personality—that’s right. It may influence how you get along with your child, both in childhood and adulthood, but it will not affect how your child turns out.

 

Traditional theory:

My daughter would be the same whether I was stern or permissive?

 

GS theory:

Yes. Essentially.

 

Traditional theory:

She would be the same whether I was neat or sloppy?

 

GS theory:

That’s right.

 

Traditional theory:

Why is it that neither my daughter nor I see it that way? Why do we think that my attitudes and my beliefs and my behaviors have shaped a good part of her?

 

GS theory:

Well, one reason you think that is the way our society describes parenting and family life. Our culture puts a lot of emphasis on the belief that parents shape their children. But that’s all it is: a belief.

 

Traditional theory:

A belief that is so pervasive that it permeates all our thinking and all our research?

 

GS theory:

Certainly. We are not the first culture to allow a belief to direct us. Europeans believed that the world was flat, that the heavens were perfect, that the universe was geocentric. We humans frequently are guided by our beliefs, and that includes scientists.

 

Traditional theory:

I can agree with that. We all come to research with some view, some “lens.”

 

GS theory:

But in socialization research, we have come with an assumption that nurture—the kind parents provide in the family home—is our most important subject to research. That assumption has determined our research questions and our research methodology.

 

Traditional theory:

I can also agree with some of that statement. No doubt, our emphasis on parenting has determined much of our research. But it has not been without basis. We have emphasized parenting because we have seen it as the most important influence on children’s development.

 

GS theory:

But socialization researchers have not acknowledged that parenting may really be an interpretation of the genetic connection between parent and child. Most of our research has been conducted on biologically related family members. Until we extend research to include all types of families, especially adoptive ones, we won’t be able to tease apart the nature from the nurture.

 

Traditional theory:

That returns us to our start: nature versus nurture. I’m afraid that all we’ve proved in this debate is that we don’t agree on the matter.

 

GS theory:

On that, I can agree.

 

Traditional theory:

Let’s end at this point and invite our audience to pose questions for us.

 

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Ó 1999 – 2000 by Mary Bold